By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Post #2 -- Group 1
Using evidence from both texts, answer the following questions:
To what extent is the monster/hero responsible for his exile? How do his values contribute to his exile?
A monster is not responsible for his exile because he/she is naturally rejected by society. Grendel tries to say "friend" (pg. 52) and then is brutally attacked by men. Grendel's hostilities for humans are formed from their reaction to him, and so his exile is not his choosing. On the contrary, Grendel longs for companionship which is why he obsesses over watching the humans. A hero, on the other hand, is responsible for his/her exile. A hero isolates himself from society to show his superiority, which is shown in Beowulf, line 559. He describes his heroic fights, and portrays himself as a person that not many can relate to.
I agree Morgan. In fact, Grendel attempts several times to try and get along with the people because he felt a sense of connection between the ways they communicated but just as most people would expect, they turn him down and immediately segregate him from the rest of society. On pg 23 of Grendel, the people "jerked back" when they saw Grendel's figure. As much as they thought hidiously of him, the people looked just as weird and disfigured in Grendel's point of view. Just because their society is overpowered by everything, shouldn't mean they should exile Grendel.
I agree with Morgan that a hero causes his exile through isolating himself as a superior, but, I would also like to add the reason for this lies in his value of self. Beowulf says, "I shall... prove my self with a proud deed..." (43). His motivation to fight Grendel for glory shows his value for self, which inspires his desire for superiority. Similarily, a monster causes his exile because he chooses to use strength destructively. Grendel says, "I bawl at the splintered sunlight" (7). "...the only friend, ... my shadow" (8). Grendel's loneliness and unhappiness shows it’s unnatural for him to be monstrous, and has made the choice to make himself that way.
I agree with Jenny to a certain extent that Grendel is isolating himself. I think that originally he tried to get along with the people, but eventually once they were unaccepting of him he gave up and started to isolate himself, as shown when Grendel doesn't kill Unferth and Grendel says, "A few minutes from now I'm going to carry you back to Hrothgar, safe and sound...", and Unferth replies, "I'll kill myself" (90). Grendel is making an effort to communicate and get along with the people and this man would rather die, and in doing so pushes Grendel away once again.
I feel like Grendel finds a way to entertain himself with Unferth, he sees that Unferth is trying to be a hero and ultimatly fails, and with Beowulf, Grendel believes the same thing, that there are no heros and that no one can destroy him.
I believe that we all came to the same conclusion, that a monster is responsible for his own exile. Grendel is completely aware of his surroundings and he exiles himself from them, " I listened, huddled in the darkness, tormented, miss-trustful. I knew them ... " (47). The repetition of "I" shows how aware Grendel is of his surrounding, but he leaves himself "huddled in the darkness". Being a monster he is looked at as an outcast by society but this isn’t responsible for his exile because Grendel understands that it is up to him to be exiled or not.
I believe that this point is more evident in Beowulf because of how he exiles himself so he will receive all the glory. Beowulf is happiest when he is summoned, “Beowulf was quickly brought... the winner of fights … where the king in his wisdom waited" (1310-1314). Beowulf understands the power he has and he looks at himself as god. He wants to be known as "winner of fights" so that he continues to build his ego, on how powerful and important he is to society. He exiles himself so this pressure he once had turns into praise and envy.
I agree with Jeremy, Beowulf wants to be like a star on center stage. He brought 14 men with him from his country just to show how he leads them. He needs the spotlight, it feeds him and his ego, and he does not want to share it. He is responsible for being almost like a god among men, the way they praise him and the way he tries to deflect praise as if to be modest, which brings more praise onto himself. Over all he is a prideful attention grabber that needs to be alone for all the attention.
Jeremy, I like how you said that Beowulf needs to be 'exiled' in a way so that he can be the center of attention. He doesn't want anyone else stealing away his glory. This ideology can lead us as readers to fully grasp the difference that while Grendel is being exiled without a choice, Beowulf is purposefully doing this in order to be noted for his extraordinary behaviors.
I agree with all of you and what you're saying about Beowolf. He purposely avoids companionship and help from others so that no one else can share his glory and so that he can remain to be this unchallenged hero among the people. Grendel, on the other hand, is exiled but still shares that same amount of glory without wishing it upon himself
A monster is not responsible for his exile because he/she is naturally rejected by society. Grendel tries to say "friend" (pg. 52) and then is brutally attacked by men. Grendel's hostilities for humans are formed from their reaction to him, and so his exile is not his choosing. On the contrary, Grendel longs for companionship which is why he obsesses over watching the humans. A hero, on the other hand, is responsible for his/her exile. A hero isolates himself from society to show his superiority, which is shown in Beowulf, line 559. He describes his heroic fights, and portrays himself as a person that not many can relate to.
ReplyDeleteI agree Morgan. In fact, Grendel attempts several times to try and get along with the people because he felt a sense of connection between the ways they communicated but just as most people would expect, they turn him down and immediately segregate him from the rest of society. On pg 23 of Grendel, the people "jerked back" when they saw Grendel's figure. As much as they thought hidiously of him, the people looked just as weird and disfigured in Grendel's point of view. Just because their society is overpowered by everything, shouldn't mean they should exile Grendel.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Morgan that a hero causes his exile through isolating himself as a superior, but, I would also like to add the reason for this lies in his value of self. Beowulf says, "I shall... prove my self with a proud deed..." (43). His motivation to fight Grendel for glory shows his value for self, which inspires his desire for superiority. Similarily, a monster causes his exile because he chooses to use strength destructively. Grendel says, "I bawl at the splintered sunlight" (7). "...the only friend, ... my shadow" (8). Grendel's loneliness and unhappiness shows it’s unnatural for him to be monstrous, and has made the choice to make himself that way.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jenny to a certain extent that Grendel is isolating himself. I think that originally he tried to get along with the people, but eventually once they were unaccepting of him he gave up and started to isolate himself, as shown when Grendel doesn't kill Unferth and Grendel says, "A few minutes from now I'm going to carry you back to Hrothgar, safe and sound...", and Unferth replies, "I'll kill myself" (90). Grendel is making an effort to communicate and get along with the people and this man would rather die, and in doing so pushes Grendel away once again.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Grendel finds a way to entertain himself with Unferth, he sees that Unferth is trying to be a hero and ultimatly fails, and with Beowulf, Grendel believes the same thing, that there are no heros and that no one can destroy him.
ReplyDeleteI believe that we all came to the same conclusion, that a monster is responsible for his own exile. Grendel is completely aware of his surroundings and he exiles himself from them, " I listened, huddled in the darkness, tormented, miss-trustful. I knew them ... " (47). The repetition of "I" shows how aware Grendel is of his surrounding, but he leaves himself "huddled in the darkness". Being a monster he is looked at as an outcast by society but this isn’t responsible for his exile because Grendel understands that it is up to him to be exiled or not.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this point is more evident in Beowulf because of how he exiles himself so he will receive all the glory. Beowulf is happiest when he is summoned, “Beowulf was quickly brought... the winner of fights … where the king in his wisdom waited" (1310-1314). Beowulf understands the power he has and he looks at himself as god. He wants to be known as "winner of fights" so that he continues to build his ego, on how powerful and important he is to society. He exiles himself so this pressure he once had turns into praise and envy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jeremy, Beowulf wants to be like a star on center stage. He brought 14 men with him from his country just to show how he leads them. He needs the spotlight, it feeds him and his ego, and he does not want to share it. He is responsible for being almost like a god among men, the way they praise him and the way he tries to deflect praise as if to be modest, which brings more praise onto himself. Over all he is a prideful attention grabber that needs to be alone for all the attention.
ReplyDeleteJeremy, I like how you said that Beowulf needs to be 'exiled' in a way so that he can be the center of attention. He doesn't want anyone else stealing away his glory. This ideology can lead us as readers to fully grasp the difference that while Grendel is being exiled without a choice, Beowulf is purposefully doing this in order to be noted for his extraordinary behaviors.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all of you and what you're saying about Beowolf. He purposely avoids companionship and help from others so that no one else can share his glory and so that he can remain to be this unchallenged hero among the people. Grendel, on the other hand, is exiled but still shares that same amount of glory without wishing it upon himself
ReplyDelete