By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Post #2 -- Group 2
Using evidence from both texts, answer the following questions:
To what extent is the monster/hero responsible for his exile? How do his values contribute to his exile?
Well Grendel's easy, he isn't responsible for his exile but his monstrous qualities keep him exiled. As Grendel was born who he is, he can't become a member of a flourishing human society, so he must remained exiled. For example, "Thus, I fled, ridiculous hairy creature torn apart by poetry" (44). Here it is describing how Grendel couldn't thrive in human society because of his monstrousness. I personall don't think Beowulf was ever really exiled becasue when he was away from him home in Geatland, he was with other Geats pursuing glory.
I belive that the monster/hero is fairly responsible for his own exile. Beowulf's value of honor and glory leads him to exile himself, so that he may go around doing great deeds. "you abruptly decided to sail away...to fight at Heorot" (Heaney 1988-1990). Similarly, Grendel's value of intelligence leads him to semi-exile himself in order to observe the humans, "I'd be watching the meadhall from high in a tree...I would hear the Shaper telling of the glorious deeds" (Gardner 34) In both cases, their values force them to extricate themselves from society.
Like Hans said, Grendel is not responsible for his exile. What exiles him is his inability to communicate with society; "' Pig!' I tried to yell. It scared them"(27). Grendel's values don't initially exile him, but rather his physical inability to communicate. I do agree with Samantha that a hero is responsible for his own exile. In Beowulf's case, his pursuit of glory does this; "'So tell us if what we have heard is true about this threat... in the Shieldings' country'"(Heaney 273-277). Beowulf is not even certain that there is a true threat to Hrothgar, yet the idea is too hard to pass up. A hero will continually uproot and exile himself from society in search of glory.
I think the text actually suggests that some are born monsters and are exiled as a result. In Beowulf, Grendel is described as having "dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain's clan, whom the Creator has outlawed and condemned as outcasts" (Heaney 103-5). Grendel himself confirms this in Grendel when he says, "And I, Grendel, was the dark side, he [the Shaper] said in effect. The terrible race God cursed. I believed him" (Gardner 51). It isn't Grendel's fault that he's a monster, but he's still facing the consequences of it; he's still exiled.
No one has really talked about Beoulf's exile, I won't either because I don't think what he did was exile. He set out on a journey for glory and adventure, he wasn't cast out or anything like that. Even though he voluntarily left, which is still exile according to dictionary.com, he still had the intent to return if he was alive. Just going out to kill monster doesn't equate to exile. He was on an adventure for glory. We all seem to agree on Grendel though so any evidence I add will be redundant.
I have to say that I disagree with Hans. I do believe that Beowulf exiles himself. Like "Da Hound Dawg" (whoever that is) said, a hero will always be exiling themself to find glory. Beowulf repeates this action, even once the society is his own. "as king of the people I shall pursue this fight for the glory of winning" (2513-2514). Even once he's king of the land he can't pass up a chance at glory, leaving the society to pursue it. (Btw Mr.Shah, I didn't use uptake the first time because I typed at the same time as Hans and didn't even see his post until just now. lol.)
Hans I disagree, too. Beowulf's pride and pursuit of glory exiled him, as he wanted all of it for himself. As Beowulf states in regards to fighting the dragon, "Men at arms, remain here... This fight is not yours, nor is it up to any man except me to measure his strength against the monster or to prove his worth" (Heaney 2529-2535). Beowulf places himself upon a pedestal. He claims to be greater than the lesser man; that he is not restricted to the values and rules of society. In doing this, he exiles himself from the rest of society.
P.S. Mr. Shah, please don't count this towards my total number of words because you don't want to know how long it took to get this post down to just 100 words. Anyways, I just wanted to let Samantha know that I am da Hound Dawg, and sorry Hans!!!!
So, to summarize, we can all pretty much agree that Beowulf chose to be alone whether or not you call that exile. The second part of the question asks how a hero/monster's values contribute to his exile. For the sake of answering the question, I'm going to agree with Sam and Dan on the whole exile thing. I think the most basic value Grendel and Beowulf share is solitude. That piece of evidence Dan used supports that when it comes to Beowulf. Gardner also shows this about Grendel when Grendel narrates, "Him too [the sky] I hate, the same as I hate the brainless budding trees, these brattling birds" (Gardner 6).
Well Grendel's easy, he isn't responsible for his exile but his monstrous qualities keep him exiled. As Grendel was born who he is, he can't become a member of a flourishing human society, so he must remained exiled. For example, "Thus, I fled, ridiculous hairy creature torn apart by poetry" (44). Here it is describing how Grendel couldn't thrive in human society because of his monstrousness. I personall don't think Beowulf was ever really exiled becasue when he was away from him home in Geatland, he was with other Geats pursuing glory.
ReplyDeleteI belive that the monster/hero is fairly responsible for his own exile. Beowulf's value of honor and glory leads him to exile himself, so that he may go around doing great deeds. "you abruptly decided to sail away...to fight at Heorot" (Heaney 1988-1990). Similarly, Grendel's value of intelligence leads him to semi-exile himself in order to observe the humans, "I'd be watching the meadhall from high in a tree...I would hear the Shaper telling of the glorious deeds" (Gardner 34) In both cases, their values force them to extricate themselves from society.
ReplyDeleteLike Hans said, Grendel is not responsible for his exile. What exiles him is his inability to communicate with society; "' Pig!' I tried to yell. It scared them"(27). Grendel's values don't initially exile him, but rather his physical inability to communicate. I do agree with Samantha that a hero is responsible for his own exile. In Beowulf's case, his pursuit of glory does this; "'So tell us if what we have heard is true about this threat... in the Shieldings' country'"(Heaney 273-277). Beowulf is not even certain that there is a true threat to Hrothgar, yet the idea is too hard to pass up. A hero will continually uproot and exile himself from society in search of glory.
ReplyDeleteI think the text actually suggests that some are born monsters and are exiled as a result. In Beowulf, Grendel is described as having "dwelt for a time in misery among the banished monsters, Cain's clan, whom the Creator has outlawed and condemned as outcasts" (Heaney 103-5). Grendel himself confirms this in Grendel when he says, "And I, Grendel, was the dark side, he [the Shaper] said in effect. The terrible race God cursed. I believed him" (Gardner 51). It isn't Grendel's fault that he's a monster, but he's still facing the consequences of it; he's still exiled.
ReplyDeleteNo one has really talked about Beoulf's exile, I won't either because I don't think what he did was exile. He set out on a journey for glory and adventure, he wasn't cast out or anything like that. Even though he voluntarily left, which is still exile according to dictionary.com, he still had the intent to return if he was alive. Just going out to kill monster doesn't equate to exile. He was on an adventure for glory. We all seem to agree on Grendel though so any evidence I add will be redundant.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I disagree with Hans. I do believe that Beowulf exiles himself. Like "Da Hound Dawg" (whoever that is) said, a hero will always be exiling themself to find glory. Beowulf repeates this action, even once the society is his own. "as king of the people I shall pursue this fight for the glory of winning" (2513-2514). Even once he's king of the land he can't pass up a chance at glory, leaving the society to pursue it. (Btw Mr.Shah, I didn't use uptake the first time because I typed at the same time as Hans and didn't even see his post until just now. lol.)
ReplyDeleteHans I disagree, too. Beowulf's pride and pursuit of glory exiled him, as he wanted all of it for himself. As Beowulf states in regards to fighting the dragon, "Men at arms, remain here... This fight is not yours, nor is it up to any man except me to measure his strength against the monster or to prove his worth" (Heaney 2529-2535). Beowulf places himself upon a pedestal. He claims to be greater than the lesser man; that he is not restricted to the values and rules of society. In doing this, he exiles himself from the rest of society.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Mr. Shah, please don't count this towards my total number of words because you don't want to know how long it took to get this post down to just 100 words. Anyways, I just wanted to let Samantha know that I am da Hound Dawg, and sorry Hans!!!!
So, to summarize, we can all pretty much agree that Beowulf chose to be alone whether or not you call that exile. The second part of the question asks how a hero/monster's values contribute to his exile. For the sake of answering the question, I'm going to agree with Sam and Dan on the whole exile thing. I think the most basic value Grendel and Beowulf share is solitude. That piece of evidence Dan used supports that when it comes to Beowulf. Gardner also shows this about Grendel when Grendel narrates, "Him too [the sky] I hate, the same as I hate the brainless budding trees, these brattling birds" (Gardner 6).
ReplyDelete