By Thursday before class, you must post once on the blog. In your response, you will be assessed by the same qualities of discussion that we generated in class (evidence, uptake, etc.). You must also post another time by Friday before class in response to the same question. No response should exceed 100 words.
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Post #2 -- Group 3
Using evidence from both texts, answer the following questions:
To what extent is the monster/hero responsible for his exile? How do his values contribute to his exile?
Well heroes are always affected by the societal values. In Beowulf, Beowulf is expected to be strong and courageous. If he does not show this, he would be condemned by the society. In Beowulf when beowulf succeeds: "from our peopel's armoury...... pledged the ranks do as i bid." (1218-1231 , pg 87". He is blessed and praised. Monster is always affected by his own deeds, because nothing can affect Evil's evilness. In Grendel pn pg 33: "Then once around......teeth bared". He comes to the human society for ruining it. Thats why he is responsible for his own exile.
I agree with Sidra that monsters and heroes are mainly responsible for their own exiles. Heroes believe that they cannot be accepted without obtaining glory. Wiglaf in Beowulf exclaimed, "I would rather my body be robed in the same burning blaze as my gold-givers body than go back home bearing arms" (2651-2653). Wiglaf shows how heroes pressure themselves to achieve glory, or else go into exile. Monsters, such as Grendel, however, seem to choose to exile themselves. In Grendel, he believes, "I exist, nothing else" (28). Grendel's behavior demonstrates he feels he should remain separate from society.
A hero who fulfills the expectation of a society is "safe." Like Sidra said, if the hero doesnt show success he would be condemned. Beowulf is all about glory and that value is what keeps him successful in society's eyes. "Inspired again by the thought of glory, the war-king threw his whole strength" (2677-2680). He wants the glory which pushes him to defeat the dragon but in the end his strive for glory made him defeat himself. Grendel is constantly killing, it may be what he wants to do or he just does it because its by his nature. "In the end. I had to eat them" (33). The more Grendel kills the more the Anglo-Saxons are angered which leads to the society to eliminate Grendel.
Similar to Paul's point that Heros believe they can't be accepted without obtaining glory; Beowulf also exiles himself to gain recognition from religion, "like a man outlawed for wickedness, he must await the mighty judgement of God" (976-978). This quote is similar to how Grendel, as a monster, is "outlawed" from society for the destruction he causes. As Sidra said, Grendel is responsible for exiling himself. "My heart... leaden with grief at my own bloodthirsty ways. I backed away" (48). He is separating himself from society because he sees the evil he causes.
I agree with Lauren, Beowulf is all about the glory which keeps him popular in the society's eyes. "Beowulf got ready, donned his war-gear, indifferent to death;" (1442-1443) pg. 101. He goes into every one of his fights thinking, and sort of knowing that his is going to win. On the other hand Grendel kills because it is his nature, not for the glory. "I eat and laugh and eat until i can barely walk,...and all at once I am filled with gloom again" (12-13). This sort of brings up Sidra and Luisa's points, Grendel is responsible for his own exiling. He kills anything and it upsets society causing him to be exiled.
I agree with Sidra’s idea that monsters and heroes are mainly responsible for their own exile. After Grendel’s first exploration of the world, he thinks to himself, "The world resists me and I resist the world"(28). This shows his beginning dislike of the people around him. From this, he is influenced to remain in exile from everyone but chooses to be exiled himself. I also feel that Beowulf has exiled himself in a sense:” A warrior will sooner die than live a life of shame"(2890-2891). He has taken on the task to kill alone. If he dies he dies alone; thus, exiling himself.
Adding to what everybody said, Beowulf is a very clever hero who grasps what the society really expects from him, and attempts the challenges. One would say that it is due to his love for people and others might see it as a way to get praises from society. So society actually in both ways influence Beowulf. In Beowulf: “Beowulf in his fury now settled that score...corpse‘s head off.” (Lines 1584 – 1590; Pg 109). Grendel on the other hand, does not have any obligations. he is free from fulfilling the values of the society that he potentially thinks is nothing but hypocrisy. So i dont think society actually exiles him, but it is himself. He is the insurgent who will never accept humans and humans will never accept him as a part of their society."I ... again" (Pg 12-13)
Grendel really doesnt have a choice he is just is hated by the society for what he lives by. He has no say to put himself out there and takes what society gives him. He knows that his attacks are his nature. "It wasone thing to eat one from time to time- that was only natural"(60). Beowulf has an advantage over Grendel because he can influence soceity by his words even if he doesnt mean it. "For every one of us, living in this worldmeans waiting for our end" ( 1386-1387).
I agree with Lauren on the fact that Grendel doesn't have a choice. Grendel realizes that he is alone when he says, "The Shaper has people to talk to” (53). Grendel has accepted this fact and has no say to what they Anglo-Society thinks of him. He doesn’t have control over if they talk to him or not. Without choosing, he was exiled. After Beowulf says (Lines 1386-1387), he says, "Let whoever can win glory before death"(1387-1388). This idea causes him to constantly seek glory. This causes him to exile himself because he focuses his whole life on achieving glory.
As most of you have said that Grendel doesn't have a choice to be exiled, that is true but he comes to realize that he is pleased and agrees with his exiling. After causing so much destruction he says, "I had become something...But also, I was alone. I do not complain of it" (80). He doesn't mind being an outcast because that is his purpose. As for Beowulf, to go with what Ryan said, he is actually the one exiling himself so he can gain more glory. His kinsman Wiglaf goes to say about Beowulf, "he wanted this challenge to be one he'd face by himself alone"(2643-2644). I think in a way most of the ideas are coming to say that both characters have chosen to exile themselves.
As Luisa stated, Beowulf seems to want to be alone for glory. He describes that his fight with Grendel, “hand-to-hand is how it will be, a life-and-death fight with a fiend” (438-440). Beowulf seems to determine that his fights must be alone and in a way he can receive the most pride. Grendel seems to think in the opposite way, but the Anglo-Saxon society forces him to be exiled. At one point in the story, Grendel is attacked by Danes. He notes, “I’d meant them no harm, but they’d attacked me again, as always” (79). Since the humans attack him, they forbid him to live in their society, so society is largely responsible for his exile.
Well heroes are always affected by the societal values. In Beowulf, Beowulf is expected to be strong and courageous. If he does not show this, he would be condemned by the society. In Beowulf when beowulf succeeds: "from our peopel's armoury...... pledged the ranks do as i bid." (1218-1231 , pg 87". He is blessed and praised. Monster is always affected by his own deeds, because nothing can affect Evil's evilness. In Grendel pn pg 33: "Then once around......teeth bared". He comes to the human society for ruining it. Thats why he is responsible for his own exile.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sidra that monsters and heroes are mainly responsible for their own exiles. Heroes believe that they cannot be accepted without obtaining glory. Wiglaf in Beowulf exclaimed, "I would rather my body be robed in the same burning blaze as my gold-givers body than go back home bearing arms" (2651-2653). Wiglaf shows how heroes pressure themselves to achieve glory, or else go into exile. Monsters, such as Grendel, however, seem to choose to exile themselves. In Grendel, he believes, "I exist, nothing else" (28). Grendel's behavior demonstrates he feels he should remain separate from society.
ReplyDeleteA hero who fulfills the expectation of a society is "safe." Like Sidra said, if the hero doesnt show success he would be condemned. Beowulf is all about glory and that value is what keeps him successful in society's eyes. "Inspired again by the thought of glory, the war-king threw his whole strength" (2677-2680). He wants the glory which pushes him to defeat the dragon but in the end his strive for glory made him defeat himself. Grendel is constantly killing, it may be what he wants to do or he just does it because its by his nature. "In the end. I had to eat them" (33). The more Grendel kills the more the Anglo-Saxons are angered which leads to the society to eliminate Grendel.
ReplyDeleteSimilar to Paul's point that Heros believe they can't be accepted without obtaining glory; Beowulf also exiles himself to gain recognition from religion, "like a man outlawed for wickedness, he must await the mighty judgement of God" (976-978). This quote is similar to how Grendel, as a monster, is "outlawed" from society for the destruction he causes. As Sidra said, Grendel is responsible for exiling himself. "My heart... leaden with grief at my own bloodthirsty ways. I backed away" (48). He is separating himself from society because he sees the evil he causes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lauren, Beowulf is all about the glory which keeps him popular in the society's eyes. "Beowulf got ready, donned his war-gear, indifferent to death;" (1442-1443) pg. 101. He goes into every one of his fights thinking, and sort of knowing that his is going to win. On the other hand Grendel kills because it is his nature, not for the glory. "I eat and laugh and eat until i can barely walk,...and all at once I am filled with gloom again" (12-13). This sort of brings up Sidra and Luisa's points, Grendel is responsible for his own exiling. He kills anything and it upsets society causing him to be exiled.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sidra’s idea that monsters and heroes are mainly responsible for their own exile. After Grendel’s first exploration of the world, he thinks to himself, "The world resists me and I resist the world"(28). This shows his beginning dislike of the people around him. From this, he is influenced to remain in exile from everyone but chooses to be exiled himself. I also feel that Beowulf has exiled himself in a sense:” A warrior will sooner die than live a life of shame"(2890-2891). He has taken on the task to kill alone. If he dies he dies alone; thus, exiling himself.
ReplyDeleteAdding to what everybody said, Beowulf is a very clever hero who grasps what the society really expects from him, and attempts the challenges. One would say that it is due to his love for people and others might see it as a way to get praises from society. So society actually in both ways influence Beowulf. In Beowulf: “Beowulf in his fury now settled that score...corpse‘s head off.” (Lines 1584 – 1590; Pg 109). Grendel on the other hand, does not have any obligations. he is free from fulfilling the values of the society that he potentially thinks is nothing but hypocrisy. So i dont think society actually exiles him, but it is himself. He is the insurgent who will never accept humans and humans will never accept him as a part of their society."I ... again" (Pg 12-13)
ReplyDeleteGrendel really doesnt have a choice he is just is hated by the society for what he lives by. He has no say to put himself out there and takes what society gives him. He knows that his attacks are his nature. "It wasone thing to eat one from time to time- that was only natural"(60). Beowulf has an advantage over Grendel because he can influence soceity by his words even if he doesnt mean it. "For every one of us, living in this worldmeans waiting for our end" ( 1386-1387).
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lauren on the fact that Grendel doesn't have a choice. Grendel realizes that he is alone when he says, "The Shaper has people to talk to” (53). Grendel has accepted this fact and has no say to what they Anglo-Society thinks of him. He doesn’t have control over if they talk to him or not. Without choosing, he was exiled. After Beowulf says (Lines 1386-1387), he says, "Let whoever can win glory before death"(1387-1388). This idea causes him to constantly seek glory. This causes him to exile himself because he focuses his whole life on achieving glory.
ReplyDeleteAs most of you have said that Grendel doesn't have a choice to be exiled, that is true but he comes to realize that he is pleased and agrees with his exiling. After causing so much destruction he says, "I had become something...But also, I was alone. I do not complain of it" (80). He doesn't mind being an outcast because that is his purpose. As for Beowulf, to go with what Ryan said, he is actually the one exiling himself so he can gain more glory. His kinsman Wiglaf goes to say about Beowulf, "he wanted this challenge to be one he'd face by himself alone"(2643-2644). I think in a way most of the ideas are coming to say that both characters have chosen to exile themselves.
ReplyDeleteAs Luisa stated, Beowulf seems to want to be alone for glory. He describes that his fight with Grendel, “hand-to-hand is how it will be, a life-and-death fight with a fiend” (438-440). Beowulf seems to determine that his fights must be alone and in a way he can receive the most pride. Grendel seems to think in the opposite way, but the Anglo-Saxon society forces him to be exiled. At one point in the story, Grendel is attacked by Danes. He notes, “I’d meant them no harm, but they’d attacked me again, as always” (79). Since the humans attack him, they forbid him to live in their society, so society is largely responsible for his exile.
ReplyDelete